IAUA End Time Ministry
Preparing for the End of Time
The Lord is Coming! Are you ready?
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IAUA End Time Ministry |
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Preparing for the End of Time | |
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Dear Brothers and Sisters in
IAUA (ee-ah-oo-ah) our Father,
Greetings on this day of preparation for the weekly Sabbath. I pray this newsletter finds you in good health and happy in the service of IAUA. This is the 13th day of the 12th month of the Biblical Calendar in the estimated year 6020 Anno Mundi. The Spring Sabbaths begin in 8 weeks and 4 days on the 15th day of the 1st month (Wednesday, April 12th of the 2017, Gregorian Calendar, at sunset Tuesday, April 11th). On God's Calendar the Biblical month begins on the global day after lunar conjunction. The Biblical year begins with God's New Year's Day (Passover) after the spring equinox (Spring Passover Rule). The Millerite Calendar (Spring New Moon Rule) is the same this year. The Calculated Rabbinical Calendar is a day early. An excerpted example of a difficult discussion about Trinity and the conflicts that can occur no matter how careful you are. Unfortunately, comments are not in chronological order because of the difficulty of representing a hierarchical :-) discussion. The original on Facebook, if you are interested. |
| https://www.facebook.com/groups/121111054574867/permalink/1443204395698853/ |
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_____ Loren Tucker: Does anyone know? If the Holy Spirit isn't the third Person of the Trinity, Who then Is He? _____ Kelly Nichole Freligh: Interesting that you bring this up. I have been trying to figure this out for awhile now and I feel like I get a lot of conflicting information. From what I read in the Bible and a bit of Ellen White, it seems that the Holy Spirit is actually the spirit of God and the spirit of Jesus/Yeshua. _____ Angel Tucker: Yes it is _____ Wendy Drabble-Cole: I am finding that also.... contrary to what I once believed. I absolutely can't find a literal third person _____ Melinda Sherman: Ellen White clearly said the Holy Spirit was "the third person" in "the Godhead." What she told us is true. “... The THIRD PERSON of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit." (Special Testimonies for Ministers and Workers, p. 37, by Ellen G. White) _____ Frank T. Clark: The confusion I see is that the word Trinity is a trademark of Catholic doctrine, which is objectionable and should be avoided. I use the KJV term Godhead. Many deny the person of the Holy Spirit to separate themselves from Catholic doctrine but in fact it is clear the Holy Spirit is a person. Quoting EGW. "The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fulness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-- those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ. . . ." {SpTB07 63.2} _____ Kelly Nichole Freligh: My issue was never with the term "trinity" vs the term "godhead", although the Strong's definition of the KJV word Godhead is divine or divinity. The exact term used in the Hebrew language to define a plural God is Elohiym. It is translated as "God" and shown in Genesis 1 when God (Elohiym) says "let us make man in our image". Yet, most of the time, when the Bible refers to the Holy Spirit, it says His Spirit or God's Spirit. Your quote gives me another conflicting piece of evidence to keep in mind though so thank you. _____ Frank T. Clark: There is confusion in the semantics since, as you point out, God in Hebrew is always plural. So it can be reaosnably read, the Spirit of the Godhead. There is also confusion becasue the English translation of the word "spirit" is used to refer to the "breath" of a person. You can't separate the life of a person from the body. That is spiritualism. The Holy Spirit of the Godhead however has never had a body. It is everywhere, therefore able to communicate with all simultaneously and be "with" us. My understanding from God's Word ... _____ George Gomoll: Check out what James White, Joseph Bates and J.N. Andrews wrote on the subject _____ Sharon Going: What does person mean? That is the question? _____ Melinda Sherman: “There are THREE LIVING PERSONS of the heavenly trio. ... The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost ..." (Bible Training School, March 1, 1906 issue, par. 2, by Ellen G. White) What did Ellen White mean by "three living persons"? We can see by looking in the Webster's 1928 Dictionary. Following, is the first and main meaning of "person," in her day (all-caps added): "1. An individual human being consisting of body and soul. We apply the word to LIVING BEINGS ONLY, possessed of a rational nature; the body when dead is not called a person. It is applied alike to a man, woman or child. A person is A THINKING INTELLIGENT BEING." _____ Sylvia Sanchez: God is a big picture of water full. He imparts it to the Son, who is part of him, yeshua is the glass that is being filled constantly which we drink out of. The day of Pentecost showed us that it was poured on us and still is. So no the spirit is not a physical being ie. With a form of a physical body. Catholic teaching has manifested itself and permeated. _____ Frank T. Clark: Your example is a wonderful way to discard EGW and the Bible... :-) _____ Sylvia Sanchez: Gee thanks, people like you have a way of putting people down. No wonder nobody wants to be seven day Adventist _____ Frank T. Clark: I apologize I did not find a way to comment on what you said without offending you. Perhaps these words will explain my intent: "All these spiritualistic representations are simply nothingness. They are imperfect, untrue. They weaken and diminish the Majesty which no earthly likeness can be compared to. God can not be compared with the things His hands have made. These are mere earthly things, suffering under the curse of God because of the sins of man...." {SpTB07 62.3} The full quote is a good description of this entire discussion. _____ Bradley Williams: The word,“Trinity”, is a term chosen to describe the “three-ness” of the personhood of our Godhead. I have always been dismayed that there are SDAs that have a problem with the word Trinity. What is wrong with the use of that term — as long as it fairly represents/sums up biblical truth? The word was chosen to describe what early Christians understood to be true. They did not choose the word and then create a doctrine to support the word, they searched the Bible for the true doctrine and then employed a term to communicate succinctly what they discovered — the tri-nature of God. They did the same thing that other Christians did in using the word, “Millennium” to refer the biblical understanding of what happens during the thousand years of Revelation 20. The Sabbath School lesson for this quarter is a good Bible study on the Spirit. It has an excellent presentation on the divinity and the personhood of the Spirit. SDAs who oppose EGW’s on this doctrine are wasting time over a matter that is not vital doctrine in the last days. Angels of Revelation tell us what our message is for the world. “God is a big picture [sic., should be pitcher?] of water full ...?” This is a totally uninspired description of God. As Frank T. Clark points out this is clearly a dismissal of the authority of the Bible and SOP. _____ Frank T. Clark: It is a minor problem but the fact is that the RCC and their supporters claim the word "Trinity" is a "trademark" of their doctrine. I have no general disagreement with their doctrine but I don't want to be tied to whatever RCC believers may attach to their doctrine. Does this sound like a reasonable concern? _____ Sandy VanDenburgh-Clark: “There is no comforter like Christ, so tender and so true. He is touched with the feeling of our infirmities. His Spirit speaks to the heart.… The influence of the Holy Spirit is the life of Christ in the soul.” (Ellen White, Review & Herald, October 26, 1897) “The reason why the churches are weak and sickly and ready to die is that the enemy has brought influences of a discouraging nature to bear upon trembling souls. He has sought to shut Jesus from their view as the Comforter, as one who reproves, who warns, who admonishes them, saying, “This is the way, walk ye in it.” (Ellen White, Review & Herald, August 26, 1890, also in Reflecting Christ, page 21) _____ Sandy VanDenburgh-Clark: The Holy Spirit is from the Father and Son, it is Their Spirit that comes to us. Jesus cannot be everywhere like the Father, since he came here to die, but His Spirit can. Not a "real third" person, but in a way a third. His Spirit is here with us. _____ Melinda Sherman: Sandy, those statements do not undo Ellen White's other clear statements that the Holy Spirit is the third person in the Godhead. He personifies Christ, so can be SAID to be Christ, even when He is not the same person. That is just like Scripture and Inspiration's example of King Melchisedec. Ellen White SAID he was Christ, yet in another statement clearly said Melchisedec was not Christ. Melchisedec personified Christ upon earth, like the Holy Spirit personifies Christ. _____ Sandy VanDenburgh-Clark: I believe the Father and His Son and THEIR Spirit. You don't have to agree. :-) _____ Frank T. Clark: It is sad but true that we do not have to agree. Hopefully, we can discuss to grow in understanding. _____ Melinda Sherman: "THE GODHEAD was stirred with pity for the race, and THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT gave THEMSELVES to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order fully to carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only begotten Son of God, should give Himself an offering for sin. What line can measure the depth of this love? God would make it impossible for man to say that He could have done more. With Christ He gave all the resources of heaven, that nothing might be wanting in the plan for man’s uplifting. Here is love—the contemplation of which should fill the soul with inexpressible gratitude!" (The Second Tithe [1901 pamphlet], p. 5, by Ellen G. White [PH148 5.3]; all-caps added for emphasis) _____ Melinda Sherman: People have to be shutting their eyes to the truth to reject those clear evidences. _____ Sandy VanDenburgh-Clark: Melinda Sherman, the other side can say the same. :-) Let's be nice. :-) _____ Melinda Sherman: Sandy, it is right to stand up for what is true, and I have not been unkind. My recent post about Melchisedec here, you deleted, while you give certain non-SDAs free access to publishing on this page. You don't realize that error has slipped into this movement and that you have been censoring what is true and allowing what is not. :) _____ Frank T. Clark: We must recognize that Sandy is the administrator of this page and therefore has the right to make any choice by her best discretion. We are allowed some freedom to discuss but we must respect her choices and position. Even when we disagree. _____ Melinda Sherman: Thanks, Frank. I realize that, and she holds a heavy responsibility for what she allows and disallows. To be honest, I have seriously been considering unliking this page lately, which I would be sad to do, because we have much in common. It is so important that everyone study for themselves, with an open mind, and not rely upon any religious teacher, no matter what organization it is. _____ Frank T. Clark: It is so difficult to discuss and be nice... :-) _____ Are you able to discuss Biblical truth nicely without criticism and judgment, when there is disagreement? I pray we may all continue to seek love, peace, and unity in truth preparing for the soon coming of IAUShUO (ee-ah-oo-shoo-oh) Messiah, the Son of God.
Frank T. Clark Next: 2017-02-17 Trinity Discussion 2 |
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Revised 2017-02-17 |