2017-02-17 Trinity Discussion 2


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Dear Brothers and Sisters in IAUA (ee-ah-oo-ah) our Father,

Greetings on this day of preparation for the weekly Sabbath. I pray this newsletter finds you in good health and happy in the service of IAUA. This is the 20th day of the 12th month of the Biblical Calendar in the estimated year 6020 Anno Mundi.

The Spring Sabbaths begin in 7 weeks and 4 days on the 15th day of the 1st month (Wednesday, April 12th of the 2017, Gregorian Calendar, at sunset Tuesday, April 11th).

On God's Calendar the Biblical month begins on the global day after lunar conjunction. The Biblical year begins with God's New Year's Day (Passover) after the spring equinox (Spring Passover Rule). The Millerite Calendar (Spring New Moon Rule) is the same this year. The Calculated Rabbinical Calendar is a day early.


Continuing excerpted examples of a difficult discussion about Trinity as well as reader responses to the last newsletter on the topic.

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Frank T. Clark: The confusion I see is that the word Trinity is a trademark of Catholic doctrine, which is objectionable and should be avoided. I use the KJV term Godhead. Many deny the person of the Holy Spirit to separate themselves from Catholic doctrine but in fact it is clear the Holy Spirit is a person.

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Bradley Williams: The word,“Trinity”, is a term chosen to describe the “three-ness” of the personhood of our Godhead.

I have always been dismayed that there are SDAs that have a problem with the word Trinity. What is wrong with the use of that term — as long as it fairly represents/sums up biblical truth?

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Frank T. Clark: It is a minor problem but the fact is that the RCC and their supporters claim the word "Trinity" is a "trademark" of their doctrine. I have no general disagreement with their doctrine but I don't want to be tied to whatever RCC believers may attach to their doctrine. Does this sound like a reasonable concern?

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Bradley Williams: Yes, I think you have a reasonable concern on that point. I don't have that concern, but it is valid. I guess I wonder if it is not okay to make the word as ours and deny that they have any special trademark. After all this doctrine was under discussion well before there was a RCC.

And we rightly tell Catholics that they need to study the history of the matter before they make claims that have such a weak support. Their case for trademark is disputable at best and actually just their tradition and fantasy,

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Frank T. Clark: It is not actually my particular concern but recognition that the perception of other people is affected by this. The Roman Church was already flexing its muscle in the 2nd century as I recall. (AD 193 Easter Controversy)

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Bradley Williams: Again I want to be clear that your point is well taken. I just do not want to surrender to them ownership of that period; for, I dispute with them their claim to be the oldest of the churches and their claim to be the originators of the biblical canon and all orthodox doctrines, etc.

I guess I would rather engage and fight I don't want to surrender any ground they lay false claim to.

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Frank T. Clark I avoid being pushy and confrontational, following the Example. :-)

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A newsletter reader writes:

I keep thinking that, perhaps, Elohiym sort of set this whole thing; Father, Son and Holy Spirit, to keep us guessing, discussing, conjecturing, etc. about Who He is. My Jewish brothers and sisters don't even worry about the Three, though they, in the worship liturgy, speak and chant (sing) phrases like "Open up my lips that my mouth may declare Your priaise. Send Your Holy Spirit, come into my heart to make me a blessing. The power of Your forgiveness, may I spread it to others, Help me see Your redemption of me, by Your redeeming others through me." Amen

So, to the observant Jews of today, they speak of God's Holy Spirit as the very source of the knowledge of Who God is. In other words, we might not know Who God is at all, were it not for His sending His all-powerful Spirit (El Shadaigh)

In Torah, there is presented two Angels of the Lord: One of them saw and spoke to Abraham and Moses, "face to face." The other One said, "No man sees My face, lest he die." Sournds sort of like the Father is one, and the Son is the other.

Jews generally understand that angels exist and, when seen on earth, are sent from God to us. They complain that Christians make up a story about one of the angels being God's Son, and the other angel, God the Father. I tend to believe that God exists in three individuals, tied together like when I, as a teenager, bought my first component stereophonic record player in 1961. It had two speakers, one amplifier, and one turn-table. None of them worked, individually, until all three were wired together. Yet, each occupied it's own physical space. Each had a separate role to play when I decided to "play" a record.

(PS, I had to put it in storage because the dormitory dean that that Bob Dylan and Peter, Paul and Mary would cause me to become a "communist."

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Ron Dahlke, Jewish Christian.

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I responded:

Brother Ron,

I am a bit disturbed by what you are saying. I see God as our loving Father who provides everything we need generously. He reveals almost every detail of anything we need to know, when we need to know it. I find His word perfectly clear about the Godhead. The Renewed Testament builds on the details of the Original Testament and expands to Revelation where we read so many details about the future it boggles the mind. If He told us any more we would be overwhelmed. Then He continues with more detailed guidance from EGW!

The only reason there is any confusion is because of the deceiver.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not of confusion, but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints.

The evil work of deception requires us to study His Word intently, carefully, and prayerfully. The Holy Spirit will guide us. He has promised.

John 8:32 You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.

Be at peace,

Frank T. Clark - When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth... He will show you things to come. John 16:13 (FTCABE)

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Another newsletter reader:

I liked this discussion very much, "why cant we agree to disagree without being disagreeable?" is the age old question. Pray, study, listen to what the Spirit sends us. I believe as Sandy does and that RCC doctrine of "Trinity" has crept into many Churches via Jesuits and their co-hertz. As to the following quote:

"The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fulness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-- those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ. . . ." {SpTB07 63.2}

How will they co-operate? I believe through the Holy Spirit, Holy meaning separate, Spirit meaning breath. For no man hath seen God, only through the Son of God may we have a glimpse of Him (the Heavenly Father) and the Holy Spirit is the Two (Comforter) combined to help us.

There are similar statements as the above I'm sure, but there are other statements that are contrary also. Has anyone looked at the original handwritten statements to see if maybe some of her writings were changed or altered? I have heard, here and there, that her son, Willy, did some changes, as well as Uriah Smith (Great Controversy, as example) and other founding fathers. also I have heard that the Jesuits "have to wait until she was dead" to do their destruction. There is also the statement "Regarding the testimonies, .....time and place must be considered......1SM57&58." See also pages 204 and 205 this is future application to us even now! Note the 10 things that will happen!

Maybe the thousand years in Heaven are also to unlearn, or undo, and teach us about such matters!............. Ever learning and ever growing in His ways...... Isaiah 55!

Still your friend in the name of the Savior of mankind,.......... Marvin.

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I responded:

Dear Brother Marvin,

I have a saying... So many details, so much confusion. "Why cant we agree to disagree without being disagreeable?" Is an appropriate question but the truth is that it is very hard! Tremendous tolerance and understanding are required. These are freely available from the Godhead but so few make use of them. I recognize quite clearly that studious, well-meaning people exist on both sides of these types of questions. Unfortunately, only one side is correct. However, we have His promise.

John 8:32 You will know the truth. The truth will make you free.

There are two primary issues. The danger of the RCC Trinity doctrine. No matter how close it may be to the truth. The semantic difficulty of correct understanding.

The another important promise is in the signature of my every email.

Be at peace,

Frank T. Clark - When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth... He will show you things to come. John 16:13 (FTCABE)

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Do you study diligently, pray earnestly, and discuss openly?

I pray we may all continue to seek love, peace, and unity in truth preparing for the soon coming of IAUShUO (ee-ah-oo-shoo-oh) Messiah, the Son of God.

Frank T. Clark
Eliau@IAUA.name
www.IAUA.name

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Revised 2017-02-17