2012-04-06 False Quotes

	IAUA End Time Ministry
	Preparing for the End of Time
	The Lord is Coming!   Are you ready?
Home / Archives

Dear Brothers and Sisters in IAUA (ee-ah-oo-ah) our Father, Greetings on this day of preparation for the weekly Sabbath. I pray this newsletter finds you in good health and happy in the service of IAUA. This is the 14th day of the 1st month of God's Sacred Calendar in the estimated year 6015 Anno Mundi. Tomorrow the Sacred New Year begins with the first Unleavened Bread yearly Sabbath the evening of the 15th day of the 1st month (Sabbath, April 7th on the 2012 Gregorian Calendar, beginning sunset on Friday, April 6th). This year the day of the week will be the same as it was in the year IAUShUO was crucified on Golgotha. An amazing thing occurs in the Gregorian Calendar years of both 2011 and 2012. Those who follow the Millerite Calendar and the Jewish Calendar agree with the dates my research, and others, has determined for the Gregorian Calendar dates of God's Sacred Calendar! Another interesting part of the discussion about the apparent delay of the Second Coming, foreknowledge, and predestination from the LinkedIn website group "E-ventists Network". I suspect your Sabbath School discussion never sounds like this. Patrick Stevenson • I picked up the following quote somewhere in a discussion. Does anyone on this thread recognize it? I failed to "cut" the reference when I cut and pasted it. I believe it was referenced from Desire of Ages...anybody? "Everything in sacred history proclaims there has been a terrible delay in the second advent. All that the human mind can comprehend in a union of true love between a man and woman has been thwarted in the experience of Jesus. If there was anything more that He could do to win His fair one, He would have done it. And so the delay continues ... until the Bride hears the knocking at the door and repents of her harlotry. But with all the tragedy of this, she will repent and she will be ready for the marriage of the Lamb. This marriage need not be delayed further. It must come for the prophet has said, 'These are the true sayings of God. ... Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus' (Rev. 19:9, 22:20)." [1] Mario Petrovalle • I have the searchable CD "The Complete works of Ellen White" and I tried several phrases the text you quote. I did not find any place that this appears. Frank T. Clark • Patrick, I also performed an exhaustive computer search on the CD and found nothing that comes even close to the first sentence in particular. That is a false quote both in content and thought. God does not delay! When we truly believe He is God who knows all and has all power, we will immediately recognize He is not caught short or surprised. We are the ones who do not know and think He delays. God has a perfect plan which has never changed and will never change. He will come at the appointed time! Patrick Stevenson • A friend contacted me about this quote and is certain it is something from the writing of Donald K. Short. A discussion whose final conclusion must wait for heaven and a personal interview with Jesus: the balance between God's foreknowledge and sovereinty vs man's culpability for choosing and the effect of the choices the people of God make. It was time for Israel to enter the promised land. Caleb and Joshua urged that in in God's power they were well able to take the land...but Israel made the cowardly choice and they all died in the desert during forty years of delay. God had intended that they enter in, but the choices of the people resulted in a delay. Frank T. Clark • Patrick: The non-EGW quote can be found at: http://sabbathschooltoday.blogspot.com/2012/03/love-stories_19.html This attributes the quote to Donald K. Short, "Really--Is There No Delay?", 1997. http://sabbathschooltoday.blogspot.com/2012/03/love-stories.html This quote is not attributed and therefore might be assumed to be EGW who was quoted earlier. Man can choose whatever he wants to do and lives with the results. Man can follow God's plan or not. We delay our obedience and participation with Him and then say it is God who delays. God knows what man will choose and His plan already encompasses that choice. Anything less denies God's omniscience and omnipotence. We will learn many things in heaven but there are things we should already know. George Evans • Frank, you said emphatically, "God does not delay!" You should read the last two articles A. G. Daniells wrote in Ministry Magazine. The series starts on page 5 of the November 1930 issue: http://www.adventistarchives.org/doc_info.asp?DocID=104482 Daniells almost vanished entirely from the scene after the second article in December even though he hints that he would continue in January. This is one of the most bazaar things I have found while poking around the archives. Does anyone know why this series was ended? Frank T. Clark • A. G. Daniells is not my spiritual mentor. The Bible and the Bible alone are my guide. I do recognize there is difficulty in recognizing the distinction between what God knows and what we know. It is clear God does not tell us everything in advance though He certainly reveals many things to us through prophecy. Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. The verse says He will tell us what He is doing, it does not say He will always tell us what we are going to do. He does tell us much. Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: Yes, we need to get with God's program for our benefit and not from some mistaken guilt trip which says we are delaying His coming. God's plan goes forward but we lose the opportunity to be a part of that plan. Hab 2:3 For the vision is yet for the appointed time, and it declareth of the end, and doth not lie; though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not delay. (JPS) George Evans • Frank, I assume you would join me in considering Ellen White as a spiritual mentor since you started this thread with three of her statements. How do you understand her statements that God's original purpose was to end history at Solomon? How do you understand her statements comparing the thwarting of God's will at Kadesh-Barnea with Adventists history? Dave Clark • @George, many people confuse the difference between God's Perfect Plan and His Plan to make "... all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." (Romans 8:28) God's "original purpose" for Adam and Eve was that there would be no sin. Thus, you cannot say that God's "original purpose" was to end history at Solomon for, if God's True Original Purpose had come to pass, the history represented by David and Solomon would never have occurred. The point is that God has many plans; however, He never begins to impliment a particular plan until that specific plan is actually needed -- i.e., when a choice is made which steps outside of His current plan. For example... If you study the original purpose and meaning behind the Mazzaroth, you will find that the entire story of the Plan of Salvation is told in the constellations and in the stars contained within those constellations. (It was only afterwards that pagans corrupted the Mazzaroth and turned it into what we now call the Zodiac.) But, you can be sure that God would not have told Adam and Eve about the meaning in the stars until *after* they had sinned. God would not have wanted Adam and Eve looking up at the stars, before the Fall, and seeing the results, which their sin would cost, prophesied before they had even committed such sin. Another example... It is clear from the original language and the original meaning of Genesis 1:14 that God set up the conditions at the time of the Creation for the signs which would make it possible for the establishment of the symbolic service -- i.e., before the not yet sinful Man (who would need the symbolic service as a constant and ongoing reminder of God's Plan for Man's Salvation) was even created. But, God would not have told Adam and Eve about the Passover service, e.g., before there was a sinful Man which would have need of such a service. In both of these cases, though (and many, many others), the fact that Man was not told about these plans does not negate the fact that such plans existed but were, as yet, unimplimented. So, when Paul said that the law "... was added because of transgressions ..." do you think Paul really meant that such laws had not been in existence before Man sinned? God forbid! Rather, God's entire law always existed but had never previously been required to be spelled out in such detail. Why? Because the basic concept of the Law of Love had always been sufficient and implicitly and thoroughly understood until the carnal mind came into existence which could not fathom the depths of such simplicity. Thus, it was only the pre-existing details of God's Law which had to be added to the collective memory of the fallen race of Mankind -- a plan which did not need to be unfolded until such light needed to be shed upon the recesses of Man's newly-clouded mind. The same applies to an understanding of just how Jesus Christ could be "... the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." (Revelation 13:8) Now, perhaps all of the above is already well understood. If so, good. I just felt prompted to lay it out, though, for all to see. Frank T. Clark • George, I would love to see the references you claim from EGW and examine them carefully. I do find a great deal of value from the writings of EGW though to call her a mentor... I will need to think about that and review the meaning of the word. I stand by my claim that ultimately I follow the Bible alone. Other sources are often valuable to consider but they must be verified against the Bible. We are getting deep into semantics and the difficulties of communicating clearly. David made some very valuable comments above which I appreciate immensely. As I pondered this subject deeper, I noticed an interesting and enlightening choice of words in George's statement "the thwarting of God's will ". It was absolutely God's will and plan for them to enter Canaan without a delay. As we dig deeper into this discussion, I think we need to consider that there are subtle meanings and variations to the application of the word "plan". God presented a "plan" for the children of Israel knowing they would not follow it but it did not change His overall "Plan". (heavy sigh) Perhaps this clarifies the confusion... or not. This is still following the original primary topic because of the parallel of the dichotomy of recognizing the failures of the SDA denomination while still defending its position as the "Remnant Church". Make no mistake! While I clearly recognize and admit the failures of the SDA denomination, I also defend its position as the "Remnant Church". This dichotomy can be confusing. We have the same dichotomy in discussing God's "plan". As I review David's excellent explanation above, I find no need to comment further. George Evans • Frank, Daniells ended his November article with a selection from GC 458 in which is found the following "... it was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be so long delayed and His people should remain so many years in this world of sin and sorrow. But unbelief separated them from God ... they refused to do the work which He had appointed them ..." God wanted to end this earlier but He didn't. Isn't this a thwarting of God's will by those who refused to do the work? Frank T. Clark • It was not the will of God that sin should enter the earth, it was not the will of God that... It is a thwarting of God's will but God knew it would happen and it is encompassed in His Plan for final events. Judgment for sin is very long delayed. God's final plan for the end has not changed because He knows all that will happen. We can follow His will and be a part of His plan or leave it to others and we will be lost. Or we can continue going in circles and engage in never-ending discussion... Perhaps I will refuse to attempt to answer repeating questions. If you don't understand the point now, you never will. Lynda Karr • Awww, Frank. Don't give up! It's just getting good (grin). But I do agree. The explanation given above that God's Plan encompasses God's plans is "graspable". God's perfect will has been "thwarted" since sin reared its ugly head because sin could never have been in a righteous God's will. However God's perfect other-centered love, unable to force His will upon the consciences of His creation without destroying our ability to freely love--or not--in return, made a PLAN accomplish His ultimate goal even with our refusal to follow His perfect sinless will. The confusion probably comes from assuming God's plan and God's will are identical. God's other-centeredness causes him to allow us to "thwart" His will, but His Plan takes into consideration all that we will do and sets the return of Christ at the appearance of the "terminal generation", "the 144,000", though we have no clue when that's going to be. I don't remember now where I picked this up, but if we look at God as creator of all things, then we look at Him as creator of time. Whereas God is eternal, without beginning or end (which is hardly graspable), Time for the history of the earth is a line; it has a beginning and an end. God is outside of our timeline and sees all of it at all times and can step into it (or send the Holy Spirit into it) at any time He wishes. His Plan will come to pass, and He has always known when it will come to pass, no matter how uncooperative we are in engaging in the work He has for us to do before He ends time for the earth as we know it. It is not for us to "hurry up and 'get it right' to help God bring His will to pass sooner"; it is that God knows which generation will "get it right" and Jesus will return. Yes, we all need to busy ourselves with getting it right so we can be that generation, but that won't bring Jesus any sooner. It will simply fulfill the prophecies of the terminal generation. Did that help? Yes? No? Am I anywhere near the point? Frank T. Clark • Lynda, I think you got it... :-) The underlying issue which makes this point important is the methods we use to motivate people. I disagree with embracing the idea "The ends justify the means." Sometimes the right things are not done the right way. Sometimes we just let it go. Sometimes we have to take a stand. There is nothing wrong with recognizing there were times when God presented His people with an opportunity to move forward and they didn't. However I believe there is a danger in slipping into a guilt and blame mode which is not God's way. Or blaming God in the sense of assuming He did not have the power or knowledge to accomplish what He intended. We can easily motivate people to follow God's will without accusing them of delaying God's plan. We can recognize and lament the failures of the past without accusing them of delaying God's plan. It was a failure to follow God's leading and be a part of His will for us all to grow in truth. A lesson to us today and the original focus of this discussion. Are we a movement, which means we must move forward into all truth? Are we just a denomination taking a stand where we are? I am asking each one of you. Do you see the difference? We have been given guidance and the direction. Will we move? George Evans • Did God plan to lose the ones who will be lost? Alan Abbott • Regarding the previous comment/question from George Evans: The thought of this being a possible "yes" certainly alters the purpose of the cross. God intentionally creating man so that they might be destroyed is simply not congruent with a God of love. This throws a lot of other Biblical issues into massive chaos. Frank T. Clark • It is not His will that any should be lost because provision has been made for all. Sadly, some will choose to reject His offer of forgiveness and salvation. He knows who will reject Him in spite of every effort He makes to reach them. We will verify His efforts for every lost one for ourselves when we review the judgment of the wicked during the thousand years in heaven before we return to earth for the execution of the judgment. I have often observed quotes claimed to be from EGW which are not carefully researched to determine if they are true. It is a sad thing that people find it necessary to embellish and fabricate truth in order to support their own pet ideas. It is even worse when others repeat it without careful verification. It is also surprising when people unintentionally limit the knowledge and power of God with theories and ideas which make unexamined assumptions. It requires careful study and prayer for guidance by the Holy Spirit to avoid the many deceptions of Satan. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24 Do you carefully study and research what you are told to verify if it is true? I pray we may all continue to seek love, peace, and unity in truth preparing for the soon coming of IAUShUO (ee-ah-oo-shoo-oh) Messiah, the Son of God. Frank T. Clark Eliau@IAUA.name www.IAUA.name Next: 2012-04-13 No Light

Revised 2012-04-13